Monday, March 14, 2011

Grey Knights Thoughts

Alright

I've had a chance to play some actual games with the new Grey Knights, and to Vassal it up a fair bit with them.

I think, first of all, that the internet is - as usual - starting off on the wrong foot.  There are a lot of bad lists going on out there.  I still think I'm figuring out what's right for me personally, and there'll be more time spent toward this goal as time goes on ... c'est la vie.  The thing of it is - many of the units are quite expensive "built right," and so when you're going through your list you wind up with armies that are strong enough, but aren't using much variety and certainly aren't going to be ticking off all the strong units in a single list; so, variety will result from high points costs, b/c you aren't going to have a lot of cookie cutter builds I don't think.

Over the weekend, I tried out a couple of things:
1) 10 man Grey Knight Squads (combat squad an option) w/ 2 psycannons, psybolt, master justicar hammer, Rhino; this squad is very shooty, only "ok" in combat (I mean, power weapons at S5 is good, but, they really don't have a LOT of attacks)
2) Psyflemen dreadnoughts and venerable dreadnoughts; these guys are hard to kill b/c of where they'll be situated (namely, not in the way of meltaguns), but people who run Riflemen know this; Venerables get banged up, but are very hard to outright kill (though at 195, they pay for it).  I tried one particular list using FIVE ... 2 Venerables and 3 Regulars; while good on paper, I didn't like having quite that many; I think 2-3 is the sweet spot, as fire support for an advancing core of power armored guys toting 16 s5 and 4-8 s7 rending shots per unit, with Rhino support.
3) Vindicare; he needs to be protected, b/c he is too much of a threat, and he is VERY EASY TO KILL.  Putting him in a hiijacked rhino cost me a turn of fire, but I didn't care ... by Turn 2 he was in a safe position messing people up.  While I can see using him against infantry targets with some regularity, he'll most often shoot at tanks.  I rolled over 20 on the pen rolls with some regularity.  The average roll penetrates a land raider.
4) Several other things, that I didn't like as much.  I also liked having a teleport homer summoning shrouding librarian like you would not believe.  It frees you up to over extend with your power armored hammer, and have the Libby with a foot psybolt squad heading toward center, offering supporting fire, and he just yoinks squads back toward objectives and key positions at leisure.  We kinda knew he was going to be money, but he's REALLY money; I also seem to always roll "3" for cover saves on vehicles when he has shrouding up, prompting me to believe shrouding is supremely awesome.  Well, it probably is anyway.

Here's a list I'll be playtesting *next* ...

Grand Master - Psychotroke Grenades, Incinerator
Librarian - Shrouding, Might of Titan, Summoning (Might and Shrouding are required; not sure on Summoning for this list yet)

10 x Purifiers w/ 5 Halberds, 2 Hammers, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt, Rhino
Vindicare

10 x Grey Knights w/ Master Hammer Justicar, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt, Rhino
10 x Grey Knights w/ Master Hammer Justicar, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt, Rhino
10 x Grey Knights w/ Master Hammer Justicar, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt, Rhino

Dreadnought w/ 2 x TL Autocannons, Psybolt
Dreadnought w/ 2 x TL Autocannons, Psybolt


So, as a general rule, you'll see the Grand Master give Scoring to the Purifiers, and the Purifiers themselves will be walking/running into position with the Grand Master and Librarian attached; unit is very combat capable with pairs of hammers, Hammerhand as needed; plus, it shoots like crazy (psybolt is pretty darned good).  The Purifier rhino is for combat squadded GK, or more often - the Vindicare.  Vindicares aren't hard to kill; it can make a lot of sense to scoot them forward in a hiijacked Rhino; you give up a turn of fire, but with shrouding and smoke on Turn 1, and other threats thereafter (plus it being very hard to FF a rhino with Vindi inside to actually get at him in a single turn w/out wasting fire), he's going to put the hurt on from a safe position.

The Psyflemen dreads are good, but I've found in test that you don't want to overload on them.

The Grey Knights are *very* shooty, and those squads are solid; they aren't really combat dudes, but when they are, I think it'll be b/c you've got the 5-man squads combat squadded w/ 2 psycannons, as advance/support fire; and you'll have the other 5 in Rhino w/ the Hammercar as a little s10 beat stick wherever needed.  BUT they aren't MUCH of a beatstick; that's why you almost have to go with psybolt (and hence go with 10 man squads combat squadding to get 2 5man) for the GKSS, b/c they just don't have enough attacks to be a combat capable squad.  Psycannons are also just as good as you'd expect.

6 comments:

  1. Interesting thoughts. Like I said in the other thread, I'm still trying to figure out what'd work for me. I'd LIKE to try going Terminator-heavy, since it'd be thematically different from my other lists, would really let me go with that "Lords of Oblivion 1st Company" thematic angle instead of straight-up Grey Knights, and because I already have the models, most of which have yet to see the tabletop.

    With Strike Squads, it seemed to me that, if you want to make them hold up in close-combat, they need upgrades. Halberds would make them pretty solid by allowing them to strike before almost anything else in the game, though a hammer or two mixed in would also be good for bigger targets. Otherwise, they're not going to last long against anything with power weapons (one would have thought the swords would at least give them a 6+ INV save or something).

    I like the "Psyfileman" Dread idea. I'd love to get a chance to actually bust mine out more regularly.

    In my test game, I took Might of Titan and Quicksilver on my Librarian. S6 at I10 attacks (while still having 4+ INV) with a Paladin squad is pretty nice. They ripped through multiple CSM squads and tore up a Land Raider without even getting touched in return. So a Paladin Squad with a couple of ICs attached is definitely a viable deathstar unit (and I'd model mine to look like my 1st Company's Command Squad, heh).

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  2. The list makes sense. I'm toying w/running between 50-60 GK's w/a 1-2 Libbies, a Vindicare, and a Dread or two.

    Something like:

    Libby w/Shrouding+additional powers
    Vindicare
    10 Purifiers w/4 Psycannons, 2 Hammers
    3x10 Strikers w/2 Psycannons, Psybolt, 2 Hammers
    10 Interceptors w/2 Pyscannons, Psybolt, 2 Hammers
    2xRifle Dreads

    Should clock in around 1950-2k depending on total points. But yeah, most of the lists currently are trying for to many toys to early. It'll be a interesting spread that's for sure.

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  3. Mines similar again mike, cept just running a Libby, no gm, and 2 x termi and 1 x GKSS with 2 psyflemen and a dreadknight at 1750. Really agree - lots
    Of toys a good list doesn't make.

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  4. My current 1750 list is looking like:

    GM w/ Psychotroke, Rad
    Vindi
    10x Purifiers w/ MC Hammer, 5x Halbreds, 2x Incins, 1x Staff
    10x GKSS w/ 2x Psycannon, Hammer, Psybolt, Rhino
    10x GKSS w/ 2x Psycannon, Hammer, Psybolt, Rhino
    Dread w/ 2x Autocanon, Psybolt
    Dread w/ 2x Autocanon, Psybolt
    LRC w/ Multi-melta

    I've been playing Nids before and get to dust off my GK now. I'm probably over playing the "must have a ride" option (probably because I've never played a army where I had transports), but I don't like the idea of my sqauds being hit with psycic powers (like lash, doom or fear of darkness).

    However, if I rely on the dreads re-inforced aegis, I could drop the LRC, give the purifiers a rhino (for the vindi to hijack) and then pop in a librarian.

    Another option is too drop the LRC, take a lib and a tech marine, which will give the vindi a option for a 2+ save with reinforced cover somewhere, which might remove the need for the rhino. You could, potentially give the tech marine a conversion beemer for some blast goodness too, points permitting.

    I guess I'll have to do some play testing on vassal some time and get a feel for things.

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  5. Garth,

    The cool thing about the GK is that in addition to the librarian's psy hood, your dreads can be used to protect foot squads from those psy powers via their aura of reinforced aegis, making lash princes, et. al. test at LD6.

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  6. Okay, here's a revised list, based around your list, but relying on a techmarine to give 2+ cover to vindicare.


    GM /w Psychotroke, Rad
    Librarian w/ Quicksilver, Might of titan, Shrouding

    Elite
    Vindicare
    Purifiers w/ 4x Psycannon, 1x N Daemon Hammer, 2x Falchions
    Techmarine

    Troops
    10x GK w/ 2x pyscannon, 1x Daemon hammer, Psybolt, Rhino
    10x GK w/ 2x pyscannon, 1x Daemon hammer, Psybolt, Rhino

    Dread, w/ 2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt
    Dread, w/ 2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt

    ReplyDelete