Grey Knights Thoughts

Alright

I've had a chance to play some actual games with the new Grey Knights, and to Vassal it up a fair bit with them.

I think, first of all, that the internet is - as usual - starting off on the wrong foot.  There are a lot of bad lists going on out there.  I still think I'm figuring out what's right for me personally, and there'll be more time spent toward this goal as time goes on ... c'est la vie.  The thing of it is - many of the units are quite expensive "built right," and so when you're going through your list you wind up with armies that are strong enough, but aren't using much variety and certainly aren't going to be ticking off all the strong units in a single list; so, variety will result from high points costs, b/c you aren't going to have a lot of cookie cutter builds I don't think.

Over the weekend, I tried out a couple of things:
1) 10 man Grey Knight Squads (combat squad an option) w/ 2 psycannons, psybolt, master justicar hammer, Rhino; this squad is very shooty, only "ok" in combat (I mean, power weapons at S5 is good, but, they really don't have a LOT of attacks)
2) Psyflemen dreadnoughts and venerable dreadnoughts; these guys are hard to kill b/c of where they'll be situated (namely, not in the way of meltaguns), but people who run Riflemen know this; Venerables get banged up, but are very hard to outright kill (though at 195, they pay for it).  I tried one particular list using FIVE ... 2 Venerables and 3 Regulars; while good on paper, I didn't like having quite that many; I think 2-3 is the sweet spot, as fire support for an advancing core of power armored guys toting 16 s5 and 4-8 s7 rending shots per unit, with Rhino support.
3) Vindicare; he needs to be protected, b/c he is too much of a threat, and he is VERY EASY TO KILL.  Putting him in a hiijacked rhino cost me a turn of fire, but I didn't care ... by Turn 2 he was in a safe position messing people up.  While I can see using him against infantry targets with some regularity, he'll most often shoot at tanks.  I rolled over 20 on the pen rolls with some regularity.  The average roll penetrates a land raider.
4) Several other things, that I didn't like as much.  I also liked having a teleport homer summoning shrouding librarian like you would not believe.  It frees you up to over extend with your power armored hammer, and have the Libby with a foot psybolt squad heading toward center, offering supporting fire, and he just yoinks squads back toward objectives and key positions at leisure.  We kinda knew he was going to be money, but he's REALLY money; I also seem to always roll "3" for cover saves on vehicles when he has shrouding up, prompting me to believe shrouding is supremely awesome.  Well, it probably is anyway.

Here's a list I'll be playtesting *next* ...

Grand Master - Psychotroke Grenades, Incinerator
Librarian - Shrouding, Might of Titan, Summoning (Might and Shrouding are required; not sure on Summoning for this list yet)

10 x Purifiers w/ 5 Halberds, 2 Hammers, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt, Rhino
Vindicare

10 x Grey Knights w/ Master Hammer Justicar, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt, Rhino
10 x Grey Knights w/ Master Hammer Justicar, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt, Rhino
10 x Grey Knights w/ Master Hammer Justicar, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt, Rhino

Dreadnought w/ 2 x TL Autocannons, Psybolt
Dreadnought w/ 2 x TL Autocannons, Psybolt


So, as a general rule, you'll see the Grand Master give Scoring to the Purifiers, and the Purifiers themselves will be walking/running into position with the Grand Master and Librarian attached; unit is very combat capable with pairs of hammers, Hammerhand as needed; plus, it shoots like crazy (psybolt is pretty darned good).  The Purifier rhino is for combat squadded GK, or more often - the Vindicare.  Vindicares aren't hard to kill; it can make a lot of sense to scoot them forward in a hiijacked Rhino; you give up a turn of fire, but with shrouding and smoke on Turn 1, and other threats thereafter (plus it being very hard to FF a rhino with Vindi inside to actually get at him in a single turn w/out wasting fire), he's going to put the hurt on from a safe position.

The Psyflemen dreads are good, but I've found in test that you don't want to overload on them.

The Grey Knights are *very* shooty, and those squads are solid; they aren't really combat dudes, but when they are, I think it'll be b/c you've got the 5-man squads combat squadded w/ 2 psycannons, as advance/support fire; and you'll have the other 5 in Rhino w/ the Hammercar as a little s10 beat stick wherever needed.  BUT they aren't MUCH of a beatstick; that's why you almost have to go with psybolt (and hence go with 10 man squads combat squadding to get 2 5man) for the GKSS, b/c they just don't have enough attacks to be a combat capable squad.  Psycannons are also just as good as you'd expect.