Just for the sake of content, I thought I'd chuck down a few lists that I've been fooling around with just for the fun of it ... or for my hobby list.
First, the Blood Pack hobby/fluff BA list I'm working through has reached a more final iteration:
Remember, this list is not supposed to be competitive, just cool ... lots of conversion and kit-bashing work going into it with a blood angel + wolf hybridized theme.
Mephiston
Chaplain w/ Infernus Pistol, Meltabombs
Brother Corbulo
5 Terminators w/ Thunder Hammers, Storm Shields
+ Land Raider Redeemer + Extra Armor + Multi-Melta
5 x Assault Marines w/ Flamer; Sarge w/ Power Fist, Storm Shield
+ Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer
5 x Assault Marines w/ Flamer; Sarge w/ Power Fist, Storm Shield
+ Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer
15 Death Company w/ 2 x Infernus Pistols, 2 x Power Weapons, 2 x Thunder Hammers
+ Land Raider Crusader + Extra Armor + Multi-Melta
2 Razorbacks tote the ASM, naturally
Corbulo rides in the Redeemer w/ the Terminators
Death Company ride w/ the Chaplain in the Crusader
Mephiston "flies" behind the raiders
Now, two lists built to "overwhelm" ubiquitous lists like mech guard, with too many durable targets to properly manage during the game ...
Space Wolves
Wolf Lord w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Power Fist, Storm Shield, Saga of the Bear, Runic Armor
(Some people eschew saga of the bear, but this guy is specifically tuned to be able to manage dreadnaughts, mephistons, librarian dreadnaughts, demolisher and vindicator rounds, etc.)
Wolf Lord w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Frost Blade, Runic Belt, Runic Armor, Saga of the Warrior Born
7 Wolf Guard w/ 7 combi-meltas, 3 w/ Power Fists
+ Drop Pod
Lone Wolf w/ Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Chain Fist
Lone Wolf w/ Terminator Armor, Storm Shield, Chain Fist
9 Grey Hunters w/ Meltagun, Power Weapon, Wolf Standard
+ Rhino
9 Grey Hunters w/ Meltagun, Power Weapon, Wolf Standard
+ Rhino
9 Grey Hunters w/ Meltagun, Wolf Standard
+ Rhino
15 Fenrisian Wolves
4 Long Fangs w/ Missile Launchers + Pack Leader
4 Long Fangs w/ Missile Launchers + Pack Leader
4 Long Fangs w/ Missile Launchers + Pack Leader
This is actually a more "foot" army than some. I eschew the "razorback" spamming wolf armies, b/c they get brutalized mercilessly around these parts ... I don't know if it's the type of terrain we have, or the general gaming in this area, but while they are statistically effective at knocking out transports, eventually armies maul them by turns 5 and 6 ... and that's that. They're certainly excellent on paper, in wide open fields, or against certain opponents.
This list, the wolf lords naturally attach to the Fenrisian Wolves, frost blade guy avoids dreadnaughts natch, whereas the power fist guy can happily go at 'em if he needs to
Grey Hunters support the advance until they are disembarked (which they will be ... they're the only vehicles in the game after all on your side ... your opponent will sadface and use all his fancy anti-vehicle fire on them). The Rhinos can either be used to provide inevitable mid-field cover and los blockage (depending on whether they explode or are simply wrecked), or reserved for later use, or whatever. If you can't keep your wolf lord bubble covered on the way in, you're doing something wrong ... and a turn 2 charge will make a mess. Carefully plan your charge movements / requirements so that when you're done killing something or blowing up a vehicle or two, more than 50% of the squad if obscured just barely, via craters/wrecks/etc., so that it's a pain in the butt trying to eliminate them at point blank range. Long Fangs obviously deploy covered where possible, and shoot at transports all game.
Bleh.
Tyranids ... never really all that fun to play, but this list should overwhelm most opponents. If your monsters and hive guard don't have open field cover, you're doing it wrong. Cover hive guard w/ gaunts and gargoyles, cover monsters behind hive guard, cover gaunts and gargoyles by getting half of each squad strung and barely obscured by buildings/trees/whatever.
Parasite of Mortrex (his movement + higher strength makes him superior IMO for getting a few lucky punks on vehicles and the like than a power-sword-wielding prime) - 160 ... you don't need him for the killing of anything but one more unit that can charge and have a shot at prying open things like chimeras and rhinos
2 x 3 Hive Guard
1 x 2 Hive Guard
3 x Tervigon w/ Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands, Catalyst (FNP)
3 x 10 Termagants
20 x Gargoyles w/ Toxin Sacs, Adrenal Glands
2 x Tyrannofexes with Rupture Cannons (I hate these guys, but in this list you need more than just 3 ranged anti-tank units, or they'll simply be ganked and you'll be banking entirely on charging tanks and punching them, to disembark people, which is fail).
Caveat that I think this is one of the better nid builds, but it is boring to play often ... and slow. I own this army, but am selling it ... largely b/c I don't personally enjoy them anymore, after years of playing and dominating with an awesome, fun nid list.
The key thing to remember for Nids and cover is - even if you don't do squad wrapping shenanigans - INFANTRY models are considered covered/obscured if even their little pinky toe is obscured. So, if a rock that actually is terrain (not just part of the table, obviously) covers the bottom half of a hoof of a gaunt, that specific gaunt is in cover. Since only 50% of the squad needs that, it's not hard for a squad to have cover even with menial things in the way. Since the gaunts can easily obscure some portion of a hive guard, then it's easy to give THEM cover. Since the Hive Guard can easily obscure a carnifex style body's 50% from most angles of fire, it's even easier to cover THEM.
Here's a SAMPLE deployment where everybody has cover from most angles (indirect fire obviously excepted, but you're really not worried about that ... the lead gaunt squads are in area terrain, and your big guys are not vulnerable to indirect fire, at least not vulnerable *enough*).
How many points is that BA list? I know it's supposed to be themey, but only 2 scoring units and no ranged power is a big uh oh.
ReplyDeleteSW list looks solid enough. I'd prefer TWC over the WG, or at least IPs (who can maybe keep those Rhinos rolling should they live :P). Wolf Lords are beastly.
Nid list is SAFH and gaunt farm, so that's neat, but I like fitting in a little extra zaz. I usually go 2 Tervies, 2 T-fexes and 2 HG units, leaving me plenty of points to fit in stuff like Warriors, Raveners, Hormies, Stealers, and so on. You could even drop a T-fex and go double Trygon plus outflankers with Swarmlord in tow.
Thanks for the $.02 Chumby ... on to the rebuttal!
ReplyDeletere: BA list - Totally meant to be utter poop. It'll be fun to paint, and give me a challenge against buddies and randoms who are tired of getting their teeth kicked in playing me. That's no fun for anybody after a while.
re: SW list ... I hear you ... the wolf guard are there for a couple reasons ... 1) provide extra power fist attacks, and Ld9, plus the 2nd melta I guess to the grey hunter squads; 2) "try" the drop pod melta-suicide. It's primarily meant to force an opponent with a key unit (like straken in a chimera, or a land raider full of termies, or whatever) to deploy "funky" and protect it, i.e. guard players disembarking vet squads to make a big "don't drop here" bubble. It can be kept with the group as a whole. Screw Iron Priests, I've seen some talk of sticking them on twolves with cyberwolves lately, and it makes me barftastic. No offense, naturally! :)
The wolf lords are def' nasty ... and of course difficult to really do anything about short of expending your entire army on them for 2 turns, without a statistical guarantee of that actually working.
re: the Nids
Sometimes I do that. I own hundreds of Tyranid models, including Raveners, Zoanthropes, Hormagaunts, Warriors, etc. The problem is, all of those units are only capable of cracking open transports in close combat, which is the fail place to do it. The termagants, tervigons, gargoyles, etc., can actually all annihilate most infantry in combat thanks to plenty of them, feel no pain being tossable, furious charge and poisoned attacks, and tons of models, plus tons of high toughness wounds. It's an old carry-over from the last edition --> I never gave my Carnifexes any close combat upgrades, but would routinely annihilate close combat armies with them, by simply chucking 3 or 4 monsters tooled w/ ranged guns at a time against units being held down by gaunts and other things. This list can still do that, all those "pizzaz" things would take away from its capacity to eliminate transports at range.
Trygons and all of that are cool, but superfluous ... needlessly redundant. What the Trygon kills, I can already kill. What it can't kill is what "bugs" me.
My impression of razorbacks in a BA army is that they are a waste of points. Not because they suck, they don't suck at all. But they won't pay off.
ReplyDeleteI play a tight variation of the 5XASM squad list Mike posted last month. So far it has treated me well. But there is one common thing that happens to almost all my rhinos over the course of nearly every game--they get their weapons shot off. If you are going to truck a bunch of FNP/FC/close combat nutjobs across the tables at speeds that leave scorch marks as you zoom them at the enemy you really have to be ready for your transports to take a helluva lot of pounding when he realizes where the real threat is. I wouldn't rely on a razorback having a gun for long, or at least not being shaken most of the game and unable to shoot it. Plus, the two fire points on a rhino means you have a couple potential melta shots coming out of that rhino from weapons --you have already paid for-- when you bought the squad in it. Why pay more?
If you are worried about having nothing to do with rhinos after troops drop, don't. Between providing cover for the troops, firing the odd surviving storm bolter and tank shocking the living hell out of everything with your fast vehicles they shouldn't lack for a job. One of my favorite jobs for them is escorting enemy that have fled from close combat or shooting off the table. If someone gets lucky with a melta shot while falling back I'd rather they hit a rhino than a predator.