NOVA's head judge has finished his review, and the final FAQ document is here:
http://www.novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/40k-FAQ-v2.pdf
If you have any remaining questions, feel free to ask; Somerville and I will do our best to provide you with answers to expect. Remember this is a Frequently Asked Questions document, not one meant to address every possible issue, or rules clearly answered within the book and simply not well understood, yada yada.
Hey mike, I still don't understand why the demonic reward of a 3+ armor save doesn't equal the demonic gift of a 3+ armor save. As stated in the other thread, there is no item in the book that can be duplicated by "rolling for your reward" and it specifically states:
ReplyDelete"At the same time as you determine your Warlord Trait, each character in your army randomly determines which daemonic rewards he has; roll a D6, on the appropriate table, for each reward. Each reward can be duplicated across the army, but can only be taken once per model (even if the reward is included in the model's army list entry); duplicate results must be re-rolled. Once all a character's rewards are determined, he can choose to swap a single Lesser, a single Greater and/or a single Exalted reward for result 0 on the relevant table; this is the only way to receive a Magic Weapon, Greater Magic Weapon or Hellforged Artefact from the tables."
Directly following this rule, this is the way you would determine rewards:
1) Roll for all rewards, Re-Rolling any duplicates.
2) Once all results have been re-rolled or completed (EX. Doubly Blessed on exalted table), you may THEN exchange a single reward for a 0 result on each of the respective tables that you rolled on.
Now following this path, there is absolutely NO reward that is a duplicate in the entire army list that can be rolled besides the 3+ armor save. So, by following this, if the 3+ saves are considered different, then there is no reason to have this rule written in.
Love you guys! Just putting the full argument out there.
oh and the rule quote is on page 66 of the daemon codex.
DeleteI think if you roll both rewards, then your armor save is re-rollable.
DeleteJust kidding.
You re-roll duplicate results, as in, you buy 3 rewards, and roll them all before deciding which to swap. You then reroll any numbers you've already rolled, until you generate 3 different numbers.
DeleteThe portion about your army list prevents you from swapping and getting duplicate weapons which some of the models able to buy rewards already have in their profile/army list entry (axes of khorne and such). For instance, a bloodthirster can take all of the levels of rewards, and already has an axe of khorne, this is a duplicate
Your example is just that you rolled something not useful, and you want to be able to swap it anyways - but you can't, because it's different - it has a different name.
....and is why the "primaris" system was built into the gifts. If you do roll the 3+ you can swap out for a magic weapon. Might not be exactly what you wanted but you are never stuck with a "duplicate" gift.
Delete"The portion about your army list prevents you from swapping and getting duplicate weapons which some of the models able to buy rewards already have in their profile/army list entry (axes of khorne and such). For instance, a bloodthirster can take all of the levels of rewards, and already has an axe of khorne, this is a duplicate."
Delete- No model is able to buy a weapon that is swap-able for a weapon on the table. The duplicate rule is quite clearly in the section about rolling for your rewards, not in the section about swapping out for weapons.
- The Axe of Khorne is the only weapon on any profile (and only the bloodthirster's on top of that) that is a duplicate of a swap-able weapon.
- The only duplicates in the entire army list are the 3+ armor save and the axe of korne on the bloodthirster.
It's a question of semantics that is not clear in the rules, and we'll just have to adhere to how it's ruled for events.
DeleteI can see both sides (e.g. I already have a 3+ armor save; rolling on the chart giving me another 3+ armor save is duplicating something I already have...is it the Name that matters, or what it does?), but I think NOVA's interpretation is the most conservative.
OTOH, it certainly wouldn't be something ridiculously overpowered were the 3+ save considered a duplicate of an already existing 3+ save.
As far as I can tell is that it comes down to this. The 3+ save you buy for a price is called warp forged armor, and it is not a daemon if reward, it is listed as a daemonic attribute. The rules say you re-roll duplicate rewards, nothing about attributes.
DeleteFurthermore the Duplicate reward statement certainly refers to the Axe of Khorne. What it says is this
DeleteEach Reward can be duplicated across the army, but can only be taken once per model (even if the reward is included in the model's army list entry.); duplicate results must be re-rolled.
The semicolon breaks the statement into 2 independent clauses.
Clause 1: No Duplicates ever.
Clause 2: If you roll a duplicate, re-roll it.
If you did not have this a Bloodthirster could certainly swap out his single lesser re-ward for an Axe of Khnorne
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DeleteQuick question. Daemonic Psychic Powers are considered to be the ones listed in the Daemon codex? Dark Excommunication does not negate BRB powers like Iron Arm do they?
ReplyDeleteI have a question that has risen a few times in my area.
ReplyDeleteHow do you resolve Gets Hot-blast weapons when the firer is BS 6+?
Page 13 says that a BS6 or higher GAINS a re-roll WHENEVER it rolls a "1" to hit.
Page 37 under the rules for gets hot is where things get messy.
Under the block about scatter weapons it says if it rolls a "1" it may not fire and takes a wound.
Under the block about Gets hot and re-rolls it says if the models has the ABILITY to re-roll its hits then it may re-roll, this includes shots that do not roll to hit.
I thought it was settled with that last bit but then I was directed to notice that the model had not gained the ability to re-roll since it has not rolled a "'1' to hit", and it was referring to true twinlinked weapons or prescience.
I'm not able to tell if that last semicolon continues the parentheses including BS6+ or if that is referring to a different circumstance.
I have been swayed back and forth from time to time so any clarity you can provide would be great.
Um.....Mike, why is the Blast weapon ruling still in there? DIRECTLY in opposition to GW FAQ?
ReplyDeleteIt's not. Read it carefully. It's regarding flamer templates, not blasts.
DeleteTwo questions regarding IG and platoons:
ReplyDeleteWhen rolling for Reserves with an Infantry Platoon, always roll once for all units. Separate units from
the same platoon may arrive via separate means (i.e., a Combined Squad arriving from Outflank due to
an attached
IC while the Platoon Command Squad arrives via regular reserves)
Q1: Does this overrule the GW FAQ that states that if squads are embarked on non-dedicated transports that you roll for them separately?
Q2: If Al-rahem and friends are embarked on non-dedicated transports, do the transports enter via out-flank?
Our rules never overrule the GW FAQ if a conflict arises. No for the non-dedicated transports and members of Al'Rhaem's platoon.
DeleteThanks.
DeleteJust checking - but does this mean that loading Al'Raheim's platoon on non-dedicated transports negates his restriction that his platoon MUST outflank?
DeleteI was 100% with you on the ruling until I realized that Al'Raheim's platoon does not get the Outflank USR, they instead have a special rule that requires them to Outflank.
my understanding from this ruling is that Due to Al'Raheim's platoon is REQUIRED to outflank, and while embarked on a non-dedicated transport, they cannot, simple deduction is that Al'Raheim's platoon is not permitted to embark on non-dedicated transports during deployment.
DeleteDirect Quote - "Failure is Not An Option: All friendly models from this codex within 12" of the Ethereal use his Leadership for Fear, M1orale. Pinning and Regroup tests."
ReplyDeleteNote that it does not say "may use". So what happens if his leadership is dropped below the value of those friendly units? (say by Deathleaper, or Psyker Battle Squads" - are those friendly units now forced to use a lesser value than their own base?
I don't see why not. Being hilarious is not the same as being unclear :)
Delete"Invocation of the Elements: At the start of each of the
ReplyDeleteEthereal's Movement phases, choose one of the four
elemental powers listed below to invoke. The Ethereal, and
all friendly non-vehicle models from this codex in units
within 12", benefit from tl1e effects of the elemental power
until the start of the Ethereal's next Movement phase. If the
Ethereal is slain, the elemental power ends immediately"
Is this all units that are within 12" of the Ethereal when he invokes the power? What if I move a unit to within 12" after invocation?
All units with a model w/in 12" of the Etehreal have it, so it's not a blessing or an ongoing effect, nor is there a barrier to benefiting by moving within range at a later date than the time of Invocation.
DeleteWhy are space wolf hq allowed to double up on a foc chart but not heralds?????(per the gw faq)
ReplyDeleteHeralds are daemons only way to get a squad ld bump...