For lack of anything better to do while waiting on coworker feedback so that I can get crackin' on the next part of this project ...If I were to go to 'Ard Boyz, without buying any models, this is what I would probably take (or something similar, given some tweak time) ...
With a lot of experience running Guard against an immense variety of opponents, I don't think 2 melta + flamer in a vet squad is ever a wise idea ... it's not going to make or break you, and it will statistically harm your anti-tank capability. That's what the HFlamer on those Chimeras is for anyway. Hybridizing squads is fail, and always has been, in every strategy game ever, basically.
CCS w/ 4 Melta, Chimera (all Chimeras w/ ML/HF)CCS w/ 4 Melta, Chimera
Vets w/ 3 Melta, Shotguns, Chimera
Vets w/ 3 Melta, Shotguns, Chimera
Vets w/ 3 Melta, Shotguns, Chimera
Vets w/ 3 Melta, Shotguns, Chimera
Vets w/ 3 Melta, Shotguns, Chimera
Platoon Command w/ 4 Flamers
IGS w/ Flamer
IGS w/ Flamer
Vendetta x 2
Vendetta x 2
Vendetta x 2
Demolisher w/ Heavy Flamer
Demolisher w/ Heavy Flamer
Demolisher w/ Heavy Flamer
PCS and IG Squads obviously go in one vendetta squadron each.
Not fully optimized, but extremely dangerous, especially at 24" and closer (where demolishers, melta dash range, etc. all come into their own). Demolishers are easily one of the most underrated guard vehicles, and come in handy for more than just their weapon ... they're highly capable in the "Screw with opponent's ability to get to your softer stuff" department, for the primary reason that they operate alongside your army, instead of sitting back like r-tards firing each turn.
Variants I'd entertain would be getting Demolitions on at least one Vet squad for alpha strike opportunities, and dropping the PCS/IGS to get Straken as one of the CCS ... b/c he's just so loveable.
I don't approve of psychic defense. Seer councils are easy to punk in the face with or without fortune, ALWAYS have been, and none of the other armies have life or death psy powers. Everyone on the web freaking out about psy powers ... well, come on now. Besides, Guard are losing psy hood protection as soon as the I get updated.
This is largely moot, as I will not be participating in the competitive farce that is 'Ard Boyz.
I tend to agree re mixing units of Vets reducing effectiveness...but that's without having played Guard myself, only played against.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I like the feel of the list. It'd be fairly competent I think, against 90% or more of the lists you are likely to hit.
As an aside, how do you feel about swearing etc on the blog? I notice you didn't type retard in full...if you'd rather I ameliorate my language, just ask - it's not a huge deal.
Also sitting at work on the weekend waiting to start something....
ReplyDeleteAs for the idea of hybridizing squads, I'm pretty sure that is only a good idea in VERY specific cases. Namely if in a vet squad you could take 3 melta guns max, and also happened to be able to take 3 flamers max. Then I'd think about having a squad that had the ability to do anti infantry and anti tank at the same time. But unless that kind of option exists anywhere having to choose one, the other, or a mix, one should always stay on the poles.
As for psychic defense, I completely understand just kind of saying screw it, I'm not gonna spend the points on something that may or may not work, however, I've recently been worked over by bugs psychic powers and I'd be a bit wary of any army that can do a lot of damage to your low LD troopers. I'm thinking we are seeing the tip of the ice berg as far as really strong psychic powers and people may need to start seeing psychic defense as a necessity like magic defense in fantasy.
I know you know guard, and I know you've played this list against all the top tier lists out there so I'll take your word on the fact that it is a rough and tumble list.
I'd ask how you deal with the mirror, essentially how do you beat this list. And I'd also ask how do you deal with other fast mech lists that can do this or similar, I'm thinking at 2500 pts a mech eldar list should probably be pretty decent as you can throw a lot of points around. Gonna spend some time on one....
Hmmm, maybe something like this:
ReplyDeleteFarseer, Jetbike, Doom, Mind War(cheapest semi-affective HQ I could think of)
3x 8 Fire Dragons in Wave Serpent(all with Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannon
4x 10 Storm Guardians With Flamers in Wave Serpent
3x 3 Vypers with two Shuriken Cannons
3x Fire Prism with Holo Fields
'Ard Boyz is weak sauce competitively, but it's hard to pass up a free tourney with lots of loot to be had. Since we're having the semis locally too, I don't even have to go anywhere unless I win both rounds.
ReplyDeleteI think your Guard list would do just fine. I'm a big fan of Demos too and 6 Vendettas are just beefy.
Re: Psychic defense, it's handy to have available, but far from essential. At 2500 your far more likely to have a free Elite/HQ slot and a couple points to spare.
I'm pro-physic defense if the physic defense brings something else to the table as well. For example, SM who use a librarian to fill an HQ choice, or my guard who brings a brother captin to play with Strakens squad. For a list like this I really wouldn't go out of my way to include physic defense.
ReplyDeleteTheir are enough physic powers in the game to make it a worth while addition, especally if you can find a secondary use for the physic defense.