So, my 'boring startpoint' for Dark Angels (I always build a boring start, and then work from there) looks something like this:
Azrael - 215
Librarian w/ Auspex - 70 (WHY is no one talking about the Auspex right now?)
Primaris Psyker - 70
Platoon Command Squad w/ 4 Grenade Launchers - 50
IG Squad w/ Meltabomb, Power Axe - 65
IG Squad w/ Meltabomb, Power Axe - 65
IG Squad w/ Power Axe - 60
IG Squad w/ Power Axe - 60
IG Squad w/ Power Axe - 60
10 Tactical Marines - 140
10 Tactical Marines - 140
10 Tactical Marines - 140
10 Tactical Marines - 140
10 Tactical Marines - 140
10 Tactical Marines - 140
Darkshroud w/ Assault Cannon - 100
Darkshroud w/ Assault Cannon - 100
Darkshroud w/ Assault Cannon - 100
NO, that's not the final list, and YES there will be changes, but that's where I'm starting. LOTS of Ld10 marines who you have to kill to get rid of and score, and can combat squad as needed. A fearless 4++ blob that can apply a -1 cover to a target that starts their turn 18" or less away (thank you Auspex), and deal with another as needed, with Prescience of course. The Darkshrouds are basically free assault cannons all game long, thanks to the fact that it's almost a waste of fire to try and down a 2+ cover save vehicle while also dealing with 120 very durable scoring bodies.
The Auspex is one of the best pieces of equipment in the entire codex and yet I am surprised no one is talking about it.
ReplyDeleteI think people just haven't noticed it yet. It's very hidden. None of the spec chars start with one, none of the basic hq start with one, and it's just mentioned in the one place with a description.
DeleteIt is one of the first things I noticed about the codex. Not to mention that it really compliments certain units aka black knights. I also mitigates some of the advantages given by ADL and ruins which is a plus.
DeleteHow do you plan on handling tanks? Crawl over with tacticals?
ReplyDeleteAll of the units CAN handle tanks, and the darkshrouds are effective enough when considering speed. Also, tanks are quite less common, and not all that impactful on mission ... so, when considering the volume of dudes any given tank would have to kill to compensate for it being a tank and not dudes, I'm less concerned.
DeleteThat said, there's a reason this is a start point ... figuring out the maturation of the list into table-ready is the next step(s).
I have also gone with a bodies approach for my initial stuff. And crazily enough I have two Auspexes in my list. Weird. I can see it as a starting point but it definitely needs tuning. And I wouldn't be surprised to see some people shifting back to vehicle heavy between this codex and CSM. I've also got some messed up mech lists for various codexes that I don't think people are ready to play against anymore.
ReplyDeleteAside from (or including, I guess) the extreme cost of Deathwing Vehicles, isn't the notion of a Venerable Land Raider something that is, I don't know, pretty cool? Most of the melta spam lists have been drastically tuned down in the new edition, and if you want a shoebox army, two pimped LRs and some Deathwing are it.
ReplyDeleteCool is something you can fit into the list by trimming the "boring" and there's a lot of directions you can go.
DeleteLand Raiders, especially Venerable ones, may also be a great way to try and work with certain banners.
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DeleteThat's a really good idea. I vaguely remember you using your recommendation for that in my old school Codex SM list with Pedro's aura being bigger thanks to the Land Raider.
DeleteHow much nicer to extend out FNP or better bolters out from a land raider (venerable one at that).
I think auspexes are pretty neat myself, but since you can only take them on unnamed characters, and I really want to rejigger my force org, I'm limited to one per army. Speaking of which, how much non fodder stuff is out there that needs cover from boltguns and lasguns anyway? Seems more usefully in a list with ap higher than 5 (asscans excluded.)
ReplyDeleteYou can have 3 per army, b/c Techmarines can take them.
DeleteThe big benefit of the cover reduction mechanic is the prevalence of things like Guard Blobs, and to a lesser extent now Cultists. Guard in 4+ or 5+ cover against bolters are a lot more durable than guard in 5+ or 6+ cover against bolters.
This is also highly effective at taking out fortuned harlie stars. When you consider the massed bolter fire you can bring to bear on T3 models w/ BS4, a 2+ re-rollable cover save is FAR better than a 3+ ... you go from 36 wounds to kill a harlie ... to 9 wounds to kill a harlie. 400% increase in firepower against an increasingly common killy unit is a pretty good deal.
I'll allow it.
DeleteDakka banner on a Termie unit would work wonders with a list like this, at least thats what I am working with. Azreal then taking the warlord trait for FNP within 3 inches of an objective makes the entire army LD10 stubborn with fnp in 5/6 missions. Thats a lot of tough meq. I would give those tacs a multi melta just because :)
ReplyDeleteThis list horrifies me with regards to what I might face at NOVA. On the other hand, I might be a lot of fun to see that many models on the table. I'd love to see a banner of destruction somewhere in the list, since though it dilutes the list a bit by removing bodies, the 2/4 salvo on everything within 6 inches is incredible. You could conceivably, march 5 squads up the middle to take the center objective, keeping the banner behind a single squad. The two flanking squads could then murder anything on either side of the objective. The banner could more left or right depending on how far the squads had to go.
ReplyDeletetheory hammer +1
Question... maybe Im dense but how do the darkshrouds get 2+ cover saves... seems like 3+ to me unless you are speeding around, 5+ jink goes to 3+ with shrouded. I mean the rules they have specifically disallows them benefitting from the stealth aspect of it even if trying to get it off a second dark shroud.
ReplyDeleteAlso I think as a base dynamic to your blob squad mentality I think you need a techmarine in there to cover all your bases. Noses if you can figure out why.
just saw that they also have stealth in the army builder section but not on the rules page lol. Guess they do have 2+ cover.
DeleteHA! ATSKNF! Almost all of the characters lack ATSKNF. With Stubborn and Azrael's Ld 10 the shouldn't break, but none the less.
DeleteNo. Azrael and every da hq with the inner circle rule is fearless, which is why they lack atsknf.
DeleteCourse, with telepathy in play, one can only be so careful.
Yeah Basically its to get ATSKNF in the unit. Terrify is a pretty bananas power that can get tossed around by a few armies. And if those armies beat you in assault by even 1-2 points it could get really dicey and having 500+ points being sweeping advanced is a no no.
DeleteChristian there is no stubborn on the unit as of now. Techmarine would add that too. He is also harder to kill then say an added commisar as he has LOS on a 2+ instead of only a 4+.
Yeah its not for every game but if playing an opponent with access to Telepathy I dont think its hard to imagine them going for that power if they can get it. The risk reward is really solid. I mean I would be gunning for it... well and my invisibility too but Im a dirty dark eldar player lol.
Techmarine . . . to repair hull points on the venerable LR in which sits the Standard of Devastation?
ReplyDeleteReally, you have my interest.
oops, meant that for Sean.
DeleteYou still thinking of taking the Darkshroud's now that the FAQ took out stealth?
ReplyDelete3 + cover for one ass can isnt worth it in this type of list imo. Take 10 speeders then maybe :)
DeleteNo, Darkshrouds are not as good with a 3+ ... they're too fragile, inviting torrent from one of the many units out there that can throw a handful of damage results on them with a round of fire, and bank on the same thing that happens when you torrent space marines.
ReplyDelete