tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post7740263835877144344..comments2024-03-17T01:39:05.808-07:00Comments on Whiskey & 40k: Making Quarters Better - Deep Analysis / Input Request, NOVA Open "Quarters" GoalMike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-45095083066241740732012-10-14T20:37:17.296-07:002012-10-14T20:37:17.296-07:00The theme for this year is "Urban Dreams"...The theme for this year is "Urban Dreams" and is composed of three distinct ideas. Stylishly-designed collections are "City Poet", "Aviation Legend" and "Architectural Technology".Cheongsamhttp://www.swanmarks.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-51818090979409020202012-07-25T13:20:02.956-07:002012-07-25T13:20:02.956-07:00Mike,
I've been able to playtest these mission...Mike,<br />I've been able to playtest these missions a few times at this point. And I have to agree with many of the previous posters, not to change the current editions rules regarding Scoring/Contesting. Even running a few planes has not been unstoppable with the dakka and anti-air tools that currently exist. Having a rule regarding only being able to score if you can "hover" benefits only certain armies, and I don’t think that’s necessary at this point in 6th eds “life.”<br /><br />Mysterious terrain/objectives/warlord traits have all been so minimal in our games that I don’t find it necessary, but even then I’d rather see you keep the warlord traits in, as it adds a (I hate you say it) interesting element that people plan their character choices for. Some players are more motivated to bring Combat characters with the "personal tree" in mind, and so on.<br /><br />Long and short, I like your rule set, would personally rather see you keep hammer and anvil than switch to the 5th ed spearhead style, and let the missions be what the missions currently are written as. We have a long year to see what happens to make adjustments for next!<br /><br />Thanks again for putting so much care into this event we are all looking forward to!GlanceOnASixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11006730616566052631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-84453621300110030762012-07-25T06:25:39.407-07:002012-07-25T06:25:39.407-07:00"The rulebook seems to imply that only the no..."The rulebook seems to imply that only the non-vehicle restriction is lifted, but there's plenty of other things that can prevent you from being scoring. For example Scarabs (being swarms), would they count in a Scourging mission?"<br /><br />Will this be included in the NOVA FAQ?OTShttp://ontargetstudios.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-50032315323598574412012-07-24T20:13:24.480-07:002012-07-24T20:13:24.480-07:00Darwin, only may leave with a zoom move, not a fla...Darwin, only may leave with a zoom move, not a flat out. Read carefully.Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-61898321331043024832012-07-24T20:00:28.097-07:002012-07-24T20:00:28.097-07:00Actually you can, it's another one of those li...Actually you can, it's another one of those little loopholes that need to get closed in an FAQ, kind of like Eldar Jetbikes being +2 toughness. Yea GW rules writing.<br /><br />The statement you are refering to is 'In a turn in which a flyer enters the oard from reserve it can do so facing any direction you wish providing that the resulting move will not carry it off the board again'. So yes you are right that the 'resulting move' must still keeps the flyer on the board, which coincidentally allows interceptors a chance to shoot at it. <br /><br />However, it doesn't mention anything about going flat out, which is in the shooting phase. So I can come on the board pointing straight ahead, then turn 90 and face the short table edge...all nice and legal. In the shooting phase I choose to go flat out, and go off the board edge. Since the angle I chose to come on from reserves did not result in me going off the board edge I'm still perfectly within the rules.Darwinn69https://www.blogger.com/profile/11157612794328418711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-75548007519608142142012-07-23T20:34:28.796-07:002012-07-23T20:34:28.796-07:00No need to FAQ that darwinn, it's in the rules...No need to FAQ that darwinn, it's in the rules that you cannot do that.Stelekhttp://yesthetruthhurts.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-55222752117219250682012-07-23T11:35:22.925-07:002012-07-23T11:35:22.925-07:00Cloaks no longer work like that on Commissars, che...Cloaks no longer work like that on Commissars, check the FAQ. :p<br /><br />Principle is sound.TheKing Elessarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04981821487098781957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-18721991756385523372012-07-23T06:38:11.005-07:002012-07-23T06:38:11.005-07:00wow, replying from my phone leaves lots of spell c...wow, replying from my phone leaves lots of spell check errors. go me!<br /><br />Anyways, something you might want to consider is FAQ'ing that flyers can't leave the board edge and enter ongoing reserves the same turn they arrive from reserves. Again, I'm not really thrilled about making a rules change with 6'th so new, but can eliminate a whole lot of stupidness and ensure that people get at least 1 round of shooting to take down potential objective/quarter grabbing units.Darwinn69https://www.blogger.com/profile/11157612794328418711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-8776213460829799072012-07-22T14:22:14.269-07:002012-07-22T14:22:14.269-07:00Mike,
As far as the Scourging/Big Guns missions g...Mike,<br /><br />As far as the Scourging/Big Guns missions go, does that make all FA/HS units into scoring units for quarters? The rulebook seems to imply that only the non-vehicle restriction is lifted, but there's plenty of other things that can prevent you from being scoring. For example Scarabs (being swarms), would they count in a Scourging mission? <br /><br />What about units embarked in transports/buildings? Are only actual boots on the ground counted for quarters? For example full Long Fang squad in a dedicated Rhino, is it worth 35 points (just the rhino) or 175 points (rhino + squad) in a Big Guns Mission?<br /><br />What about units that are Falling Back?<br />What about Desperate Allies?<br /><br />The way it's worded in the primer it seems like it overrides all of the limitations on being scoring/denial that are in the rulebook which would lead to some odd situations. Like the above Long Fangs counting from inside their rhino while their Grey Hunter friends don't.<br /><br />Also (while this doesn't pertain to the quarters mission) it seems like you're shying away from using Scourging/Big Guns for the objective mission (or maybe that's wrong since it's just the primer). Any particular reason why? Obviously there isn't a downside with your missions (whereas the rulebook missions award VPs for killing FA/HS in those missions, although you could treat this the same as the Warlord Trait that awards VPs), but I don't see it as particularly unbalancing and it's a dynamic I've quite liked in the games I've played. Something to note is that in the rulebook it only makes them Scoring, not Denial, so FA/HS flyers still can't be used for last turn objective contesting (though they can grab unguarded objectives), and a HS tank will actually lose the objective if an enemy scoring unit gets nearby. <br /><br />-LukeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-60572104945615349182012-07-22T09:00:27.873-07:002012-07-22T09:00:27.873-07:00As loath as I am to change the core rules I agree ...As loath as I am to change the core rules I agree with flyers never counting. Ongoing reserve shennagins can really make things dumb. Its hard enough to protect objectives from disembarking troops drom flyers, but their isnt anything tbat can really be done to protect a quarter. Until they get more interceptors interceptors in the game playing around flyers is going to be tough.<br /><br />Glad to hear you are rethinking warlord traits. Im not opposed to leaving them in, but I would avoid heavily the roll twice rule change.<br /><br />Personally I would much prefer spearhead rather than the hammer and ancil deployment. Anytime you play with short table edges like that it has a nasty tendency to make some armies completely useless. Assault based armies have at least 12" more ground to cover and with more room to back up that tends tol leave at least two turna os shooting more than normal. .ow since you post the missions ahead of time their could be very little complaints since you k.ow what you are gettinf into...but IMO spearhead offers more army varity.Darwinn69https://www.blogger.com/profile/11157612794328418711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-41534082231670504922012-07-22T08:59:45.164-07:002012-07-22T08:59:45.164-07:00As loath as I am to change the core rules I agree ...As loath as I am to change the core rules I agree with flyers never counting. Ongoing reserve shennagins can really make things dumb. Its hard enough to protect objectives from disembarking troops drom flyers, but their isnt anything tbat can really be done to protect a quarter. Until they get more interceptors interceptors in the game playing around flyers is going to be tough.<br /><br />Glad to hear you are rethinking warlord traits. Im not opposed to leaving them in, but I would avoid heavily the roll twice rule change.<br /><br />Personally I would much prefer spearhead rather than the hammer and ancil deployment. Anytime you play with short table edges like that it has a nasty tendency to make some armies completely useless. Assault based armies have at least 12" more ground to cover and with more room to back up that tends tol leave at least two turna os shooting more than normal. .ow since you post the missions ahead of time their could be very little complaints since you k.ow what you are gettinf into...but IMO spearhead offers more army varity.Darwinn69https://www.blogger.com/profile/11157612794328418711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-41637548583761051522012-07-22T08:59:16.530-07:002012-07-22T08:59:16.530-07:00As loath as I am to change the core rules I agree ...As loath as I am to change the core rules I agree with flyers never counting. Ongoing reserve shennagins can really make things dumb. Its hard enough to protect objectives from disembarking troops drom flyers, but their isnt anything tbat can really be done to protect a quarter. Until they get more interceptors interceptors in the game playing around flyers is going to be tough.<br /><br />Glad to hear you are rethinking warlord traits. Im not opposed to leaving them in, but I would avoid heavily the roll twice rule change.<br /><br />Personally I would much prefer spearhead rather than the hammer and ancil deployment. Anytime you play with short table edges like that it has a nasty tendency to make some armies completely useless. Assault based armies have at least 12" more ground to cover and with more room to back up that tends tol leave at least two turna os shooting more than normal. .ow since you post the missions ahead of time their could be very little complaints since you k.ow what you are gettinf into...but IMO spearhead offers more army varity.Darwinn69https://www.blogger.com/profile/11157612794328418711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-4820704386914187572012-07-22T08:58:52.005-07:002012-07-22T08:58:52.005-07:00As loath as I am to change the core rules I agree ...As loath as I am to change the core rules I agree with flyers never counting. Ongoing reserve shennagins can really make things dumb. Its hard enough to protect objectives from disembarking troops drom flyers, but their isnt anything tbat can really be done to protect a quarter. Until they get more interceptors interceptors in the game playing around flyers is going to be tough.<br /><br />Glad to hear you are rethinking warlord traits. Im not opposed to leaving them in, but I would avoid heavily the roll twice rule change.<br /><br />Personally I would much prefer spearhead rather than the hammer and ancil deployment. Anytime you play with short table edges like that it has a nasty tendency to make some armies completely useless. Assault based armies have at least 12" more ground to cover and with more room to back up that tends tol leave at least two turna os shooting more than normal. .ow since you post the missions ahead of time their could be very little complaints since you k.ow what you are gettinf into...but IMO spearhead offers more army varity.Darwinn69https://www.blogger.com/profile/11157612794328418711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-40299329429047720572012-07-22T04:55:29.871-07:002012-07-22T04:55:29.871-07:00I was asking genuinely, not as a challenge. I'...I was asking genuinely, not as a challenge. I'm quite glad you've been! It makes your honest opinion even more valuable than it already was to me.<br /><br />I personally play and list build in the way you just described; and, yes, that's the sort of thing the NOVA is striving for.Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-87205645340200165632012-07-21T22:40:23.858-07:002012-07-21T22:40:23.858-07:00@MIKE...Have I been to the Nova? HMMMMM lets see. ...@MIKE...Have I been to the Nova? HMMMMM lets see. I drove through a hurricane and convinced two others to drive through said hurricane to attend even though they read somewhere about the previous Nova being chock full Min/Max, net list, rules lawyers that were more concerned with competive edge than an enjoyable game. Then I had them read a post on what the Nova was striving to be, and the type of event it was meant to be. I'm also the guy that convinced his buddy not to run Eldar even though it was a competively superior list but run his guard list, not a leaf blower or Valk spam but his hodge podge of units that he liked and his matching shirt. Besides, his Cobra guard army looked cool as hell and playing against units with the old school names and look is fun. Needless to say I think he did pretty well overall. Simply put it all depends on what your looking for out of the hobby so no we don't "guess" at anything, we pick an army we like because of fluff or theme and learn to win with it making great friends and aquaintences along the way because thats what the hobby is about. It's not about steamrolling or alpha strikes or the myriad of other colorful phrases that tend to accompany tournament play. I've always held the opinion that good games are won or lost on the last turn by a dice roll and it's always better to lose with an army you enjoy playing than one that statistically should have won.Lordofbattlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-10391362489409792882012-07-21T01:44:42.833-07:002012-07-21T01:44:42.833-07:00Hola.
Lots of inexperienced players talking like ...Hola.<br /><br />Lots of inexperienced players talking like this is 5th edition.<br /><br />It's not.<br /><br />Vehicles play like this is 3rd edition.<br /><br />Except, it's not just Eldar that get a free pass.<br /><br />Not only is it every vehicle in the game that can move much farther than before, but there are vehicles that are essentially immune to shooting if they survive to game-end...and many of those flyers can (and indeed, should!) carry scoring units.<br /><br />Most of those same units can bomb objectives. Which you can then run onto. When you really look at things, here's what you'll run into:<br /><br />Necrons invasion beaming onto objectives.<br /><br />Marines dropping Terminator based characters with tacticals out of gunships to secure objectives.<br /><br />Guard dropping mortar squads (yes, you heard me right, useless mortar teams) out of Vendettas to secure objectives.<br /><br />See, you get out, then you run. You care about shooting more than getting the big base into range of an objective? Really? It's not like a Rhino nearby can just sit there and prevent you from taking it, and the guys inside can't assault you until it's too late. Sure, shoot my IG. I'll go to ground, and are games of 5th so old you can't recall what it's like trying to shoot them off? How about if a Lord Commissar with a cloak is on that unit?<br /><br />If you enjoy losing to swarms of space marines who jump out of transports (combat squad! yay two objectives! potentially how far apart? do the math, it's crazy) when going second and laugh at your guys as the game ends, because you couldn't stop them from zipping around the board waiting for a chance to disembark, well, allright, please try the above.<br /><br />Learn the ongoing reserves shenanigans. I can zoom on and off all day, never getting shot once, simply by parking myself properly in a corner--you know, those places you can rarely fire to. Know what's really sick? For 300 points in an IG list, I can pretty reliably seize two objectives anywhere on the board. If I can hit pintpoint targets, surely, I can drop on table quarters and get scoring units where needed. If it's scouring (favors IG) or big guns (favors marines) I get a bonus in that my flyers also score for me. Double win!<br /><br />It's inherently bad for tournaments to have games where opponents not only choose not to do battle, but it is inherently the best possible move to win.<br /><br />Your comments are similar to ones I thought of months ago, so kudos on that. I then played games where the other guy just shot me off objectives or out of quarters while his reserve infantry units flew and hid from me. I did not expect the Necron invasion beams to be so broken, but they are--and if you think it's fun trying to kill a single monolith hiding a single guy in the freaking corner before the flyers arrive from reserve and start playing hide-and-seek, you've got another thing coming.<br /><br />If you move 6-12" faster than you ever could before, do you really want to lose games solely because the other guy went second and had a flyer automatically enter from reserves and pigeon drop some guys out?<br /><br />I assure you, that will happen every single time.<br /><br />You think close combat is slow? Wait till turn 5 when people are figuring out the math on how to win. It's terribly dull.Stelekhttp://yesthetruthhurts.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-34012715902470750742012-07-20T23:51:11.702-07:002012-07-20T23:51:11.702-07:00Well I have played 12 games using the primer now w...Well I have played 12 games using the primer now with a variety of lists using the primer rules as they are. <br /><br />The only true concern I am seeing with the mission layouts as they are is having scoring units count for full VP even when only a single man remains. It gives to much bonus to armies who can sink a massive amount of points into very difficult to eliminate units and penalizes armies that take alot of transports.<br /><br />All of my games used the same list to give me an idea what disadvantages the scenarios provided, due to the large amount of non scoring/non-denial units I fielded I was having even a difficult time pulling a draw on the table quarters missions due to the focused use of transports. In the scouring and big guns rules it helped some but then the opponent was still ahead by that point gain.<br /><br />Flyers as they sit right now, although fast are not exceedingly maneuverable as they can only pivot once up to 90 degrees before they move which with a minimum move of 18" makes it difficult in the last turn unless positioned where they need to be to make that dash for the table quarter they need. Same applies to flying monstrous creatures to a degree.Archfiend of Dezdemonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01570996254347477584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-16243433917098622472012-07-20T14:23:50.465-07:002012-07-20T14:23:50.465-07:00@lord
Just a heads up but you're incorrect re...@lord<br /><br />Just a heads up but you're incorrect regarding the paint scoring at GT's. Later GT's (like 2007/2008) did have a set painting score but it was far from automatic. Previous years painting mattered enormously as it was generally one of the deciding factors actually.Hulksmashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06417830994213666149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-36580859605561152732012-07-20T13:37:25.260-07:002012-07-20T13:37:25.260-07:00Lord, have you been to the NOVA? Just curious.
Sp...Lord, have you been to the NOVA? Just curious.<br /><br />Sportsmanship is one of the things we've been able to have incredibly high experiences of as a result of the format and presentation of the event (85% of attendees rated it the best sportsmanship they'd experienced at a tournament). As to the other points, GW always created its own unique missions and scoring and formats for tournament play also - it wasn't a "prepared" game out of the rulebook ever for that.<br /><br />We're not trying to change anything, but going back to the chipmunking ways of being able to score whether you thought your opponent's list was cheesy and similar ... is definitely not going to happen. We want to have people treating each other with MORE respect, not less, nor do we want people "guessing" at what they hope is both competitive enough and "cool" enough in the eyes of the random opponents they'll face.Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-13151523894425949562012-07-20T13:13:08.751-07:002012-07-20T13:13:08.751-07:00@Algesan...GW GT's had a set point value for p...@Algesan...GW GT's had a set point value for painting, 3 colors and bases flocked got you max points. Mabe you forgot or never attended; you could get an additional 3 pts if the judges really liked your army and 1 or 2 points if you typed up a background for the army. So painting skill really didn't matter, thats what Gamesday Golden Daemon was and still is for. And by the way, GW removed a players overall win and banned him from future events if it was later found out that he didn't paint his own army after he told the judges he did. <br /><br />As for loopholes it was real simple "If it isn't in the rule book, you cant do it" there wasn't any inference or "I think this is what GW meant to do", or "we'll do it this way because we don't understand this".<br />People that tried that were penalized; end of conversation get ready for the next round.<br /><br />Yes, GW is a business, a powerfully successful BUSINESS! They care about the hobby because the HOBBY makes them money and keeps them in business. That being said... 256 ppl over four days, you think they are paying attention? Streamline for Gt play... don't change. I think it would be cool for the Nova to be an actual GW GT, 400+ pages of interpretation because you think you know more than the creator is ridiculous not to mention insulting. Hope that doesn't happen for 6th ed.<br /><br />@Prometheus...yes three months I've been playing long enough(since 1991) and know enough people to see that GW was moving towards streamlining. You take the rumors and "opinions" that match rules in existing game systems ie random charge distances, impact hits, challenges, mysterious terrain and play and wait.(Hmmmm everything that the latest edition of fantasy has) Rulebook drops and most of it is no surprise<br /><br />Flyers...Pay attention to what? I've read the rules, have you? And I mean read the entire section from beginning to end, not jumping around from paragraph to paragraph. flyers without hover have to "zoom" ie move a minimum of 18" or crash and they get one "up to 90 degree turn before they move. JUST GET OUT OF THE WAY LOL; unless its in a turret or on a sponson each weapon is considered hull mounted with a 45 degree firing arc. Get out of the way buddy, move behind solid cover it will spend 2 turns trying to turn around or fly off the table and come in using ongoing reserves. If it has Hover and uses it... SHOOT IT DOWN ex. 2000pts Bt's vs.Orcs; no forts vs. 2 dakka jets. I lost 1 dreadnaught and 2 marines to flyers in a 6 turn game by "moving out of the way" I dropped the dread in his deployment to clear 13 boys off his objective cleared the boys and had my butt facing the short edge when the planes showed up he was able to postion 1 to unload on me. his fly by put 3 marines in view, 2 died out of 10...I'm cool with that.<br /><br />If I'm not mistaken, this game is about warfare in the 41st millennium. At what point in history did warfare become balanced? If you want balance play Chess, play Checkers, play Warmachine and depend on dice rolls. Improvise...Adapt...Overcome<br />Find an army that you like, get the models that you like, and learn to win with it.<br /><br />Also, thanks to both of you for replying to my post, best wishes and I hope you both have the greatest of times at the Nova.Lordofbattlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-58184609005099996372012-07-20T10:37:18.416-07:002012-07-20T10:37:18.416-07:00/rant/rantDracoreanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-58957075601462996862012-07-20T10:35:39.020-07:002012-07-20T10:35:39.020-07:00Played a solid number of games with the new system...Played a solid number of games with the new system now. My Friend and I have been going crazy almost every night playing book missions, then primer missions when they were released.<br /><br />Our thoughts so far:<br /><br />Warlord Traits are a fun addition, rolling on 2 charts and picking 1 of 2 rolled works out well. Sometimes one person would get something useful, sometimes not. But from what we've looked at, there is nothing overwhelmingly game breaking in those traits, so keep them.<br /><br />Modified Hammer and Anvil was nothing but an annoyance. We have absolutely hated playing the Hammer and Anvil deployment, mainly due to the fact that shooting armies gain a huge advantage in having more room to simply back up and shoot. My buddy was the one that complained about it first and he was the one that shot my necrons off the board lol. His main complaint: he honestly felt that the mission deployment gave him the win...<br /><br />As for scoring, multiple armies have rules for making special things count as scoring that normally wouldn't. GK's can nominate D3 units and make them scoring as though they were troops. I personally don't feel that flyers should be scoring/denial at any point, but it wouldn't be fair to guard mech lists in a mission that states that Heavy's are scoring to not let their tanks be scoring. If not scoring, at least let them be denial units.<br /><br />And as for everybody flaming and raging about changing the rules: GW Did not write this rulebook for tournaments. Therefore, TO's will need to make adjustments to the rules to allow for fair and sportsmanlike play. The rules GW writes are nowhere near simple, and in many places contradict themselves. This has been the way for GW tournaments since they started. EVEN WHEN GW RAN THEIR OWN CIRCUIT!!!!<br /><br />The reason GW stopped supporting the tournament circuit isn't because of rules adjustments (most of which turned into the official FAQ). It is simply because the board of directors saw supporting the tournament scene as throwing away money.Dracoreanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-20336460298119281272012-07-20T09:48:39.380-07:002012-07-20T09:48:39.380-07:00Mike,
After having played the Primer missions a n...Mike,<br /><br />After having played the Primer missions a number of times, including last weekends Nova Prep tournament, I think the missions were pretty solid as you currently have them. Overall, I feel keeping as close to 6th edition as possible is best if for no other reason then it is what people are trying to learn at the moment, drastic changes for the tournament won't help. My observations/suggestions are below:<br /><br />Warlord Traits: Minimal impact on the game, easy enough to figure out. I say keep it in there as the rulebook states or you currently have it. <br /><br />Table Quarters: Obviously the mission itself has to stay, but what about the parameters? I say keep it as it is with Scoring/Denial units counting. This obviously means that vehicles do not count for quarters (except HS/FA in Big Guns/Scouring). To make this "fair" to the flyer using cry-babies (I kid), if units are below half strength let them count for half-VPs for Quarters. I think it is simple, clean, and "balances" things a bit without tipping the scale back the other way. <br /><br />Additionally, I think it is fine to say the Zooming flyers do not count for Quarters even in Big Guns/Scouring missions. Necrons cannot complain, because they can Zoom and still drop of a unit to count towards Quarters. It will eliminate the reserve shananigans.<br /><br />Modified Hammer and Anvil: I think it is fine to keep. It works well and did not cause any issues at the tournament. Just change the Outflank table edges to the short edges like you suggested, as I was forced to walk around when I came in from his side. <br /><br />VPs or KPs? I don't care. I have to kill units either way. Only thing is though, what would be your tie breaker than?<br /><br />Kudos,<br />GrampsGrampshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00102146973125866343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-45180917802744067002012-07-20T09:09:53.869-07:002012-07-20T09:09:53.869-07:00Too much spam encouragement. 10 Paladins are worth...Too much spam encouragement. 10 Paladins are worth 2 points ... 18 acolytes in total are worth ... 12?Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-44513621376268871102012-07-20T08:28:58.769-07:002012-07-20T08:28:58.769-07:00Warlord Traits add little or nothing to (my experi...Warlord Traits add little or nothing to (my experience of) the game, and just slow it down with an unnecessary additional step.<br /><br />Local events in 5th with Quarters counted all units except Dedicated Transports as 1, and Troops doubled to 2. Rather than having VPs, perhaps consider this system as a baseline to prevent the shenanigans mentioned above?<br /><br />(I have no doubt it crossed your mind, but if it doesn't appeal I haven't seen you say why not.)<br /><br />I'd not allow Flyers to count at all, for balance reasons.TheKing Elessarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04981821487098781957noreply@blogger.com