tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post4381544519397101709..comments2024-03-17T01:39:05.808-07:00Comments on Whiskey & 40k: Dealing with El-D-ar - Pre-Codex ThoughtsMike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-32851653188443832262015-04-22T11:44:10.336-07:002015-04-22T11:44:10.336-07:00I say keep the same rules that everyone wanted bef...I say keep the same rules that everyone wanted before the elder codex dropped including the ban on LoW. Because you will ruin the event by making elder the special exception. And simply revert ranged str d back to the older codex distortion rule that everyone was fine with before str d became an issue. <br />It's a clean and simple fix and keeps everything the same as it was when elder players were fine with those units and rules.Sanchezsam2https://www.blogger.com/profile/03461097715302769225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-79879324705685723572015-04-22T11:40:40.863-07:002015-04-22T11:40:40.863-07:00Imp knights and wraithknights are not the same if ...Imp knights and wraithknights are not the same if they were then wraithknights with the melee str d wouldn't cost 105 points less then the knight lancer and still be better.Sanchezsam2https://www.blogger.com/profile/03461097715302769225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-38536800795358715982015-04-22T11:35:39.428-07:002015-04-22T11:35:39.428-07:00He was talking specifically about ranged str d not...He was talking specifically about ranged str d not any melee version.Sanchezsam2https://www.blogger.com/profile/03461097715302769225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-68959769776774964392015-04-22T06:46:02.869-07:002015-04-22T06:46:02.869-07:00If I may, I think a big thing to remember is most ...If I may, I think a big thing to remember is most of the time when people think D they think an untouchable titan dropping multiple five inch blasts across the board. A few wraithguard seem very tame in comparison to that, especially when their transport isn't as strong as it was.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-68512995425009018812015-04-22T05:29:09.143-07:002015-04-22T05:29:09.143-07:00I get what you're saying Mike. Where was the ...I get what you're saying Mike. Where was the flipping of tables when the Necron Decurion was introduced with the ability to take 10 Obelisks/Tesseract Vaults?<br /><br />I still would rather see the D, Stomp and Thunderblitz tables altered and allow super heavies than have figures be banned.Craig Valvanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03396759882574284834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-70114506583544629012015-04-21T17:07:33.628-07:002015-04-21T17:07:33.628-07:00Aaron is making a lot of sense.Aaron is making a lot of sense.SandWyrmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02265244938930651317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-77686889725148483382015-04-21T16:49:26.707-07:002015-04-21T16:49:26.707-07:00What if you gave a flat out (non stacking) -1 to a...What if you gave a flat out (non stacking) -1 to all rolls on the D, Stomp and Thunderblitz tables. No more auto removal of units or models, but still better than S10.<br /><br />You could also simplify it by just ignoring those results and treating them as the weaker results.Craig Valvanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03396759882574284834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-20976460562494576602015-04-21T13:05:47.107-07:002015-04-21T13:05:47.107-07:00The biggest issue I see with banning the WK is tha...The biggest issue I see with banning the WK is that Imp Knights ARE still allowed. The ban should not be on LoWs (cuz Ghaz, Logan & Draigo are sooo OP!), but the ban should rather be on Super Heavies and Gargantuan creatures.<br /><br />That would put the Imp Knight and the WK in the same category (which they should be). If people just HAVE to bring their Imp Knights, then restrict "Knights" to 1 per army. That way Eldar can only bring 1 WK, and Imperials only get 1 Imp knight.<br /><br />Without units on the board that have more than 4 hull point/wounds, StrD on Wraithguard suddenly doesn't get its points back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-20702544306209001772015-04-21T07:28:01.036-07:002015-04-21T07:28:01.036-07:00Just a devil's advocate here (not an Eldar pla...Just a devil's advocate here (not an Eldar player either!) but if grimoire and fortune and rerollable deathstars are more of an issue, isn't the D weaponry risk of rolling a 6 the counter to those things you've mentioned? I don't know what to do with our local tournies with ranged D either... but we tend to follow what the big tournies decide (assume they know what they're doing by now!)... I don't really know if the new Eldar dex is completely over the top or not as I haven't played against it yet. Same boat as most everyone else really. Last Eldar dex was super strong for certain, but was it's great success in big tournies due in part to the comp imposed on counters to their strengths or in limiting detachments so those strong single books dominated? I don't know, it takes a smarter guy than me to figure all that out, but I think I'm going to try out a few games against it first. Wraithknight and all, and see what kind of impact it has. On paper I'm not real happy with what I've seen, but oftentimes something looks a lot worse than it ends up being. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889624562126143970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-3752960910673546842015-04-21T06:51:57.878-07:002015-04-21T06:51:57.878-07:00I think IMO that most people appreciate the step y...I think IMO that most people appreciate the step you are taking to try and make changes to increase the enjoyment for a majority of people. I think that now people see that you are willing to make changes they are asking that you take it a step further and look at these other issues that are present that we have kinda let slide.<br /><br />Excuse me while I put on my overqualified PhD student hat *hat on* <br /><br />I would seriously look at the information on"learned helplessness" and see the effects it can have on people(and then look at how people on forums are responding). While it is just a game of toy soldiers many of us have invested our hearts and souls into the game. To just feel like there is nothing you can do over and over, it is heart breaking. Lethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09754497085092184799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-9606873032416001562015-04-21T05:32:41.097-07:002015-04-21T05:32:41.097-07:00Mike,
The issue for me is how can you change a co...Mike,<br /><br />The issue for me is how can you change a codex mechanic for one and not attempt to balance others. Yeah a few d shots on some units is meh in my opinion. What is worse is things like invisibility, grimoire, fortune equaling rerollable 2+/3+/2++/3++ saves, and knight stomps of 6. Those 4 make it very unfun to as many players as potentially wraithguard with d cannons and artillery with d blasts. <br /><br />I understand attempting to balance the game somewhat because we have to try as to's. But this would be the first time Nova has changed a codex mechanic such as a shooting profile. If you do that in my opinion you have to change the 4 above as they are inherently worse than a few d weapon shots. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06205922113166820633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-34313699817408585352015-04-21T05:21:12.496-07:002015-04-21T05:21:12.496-07:00So the frustration here is over slightly Nerfing w...So the frustration here is over slightly Nerfing wraith guard standard guns and artillery? <br /><br />Because to allow wraithknights would require me to make exception to an existing rule for the GT in order for eldar players to use their big toys? Because I didn't hear these complaints about every other super heavy / gargantuan lord disallowed. I want ti be clear I understandMike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-78484846540840510702015-04-21T03:51:29.038-07:002015-04-21T03:51:29.038-07:00What if you gave a flat out (non stacking) -1 to a...What if you gave a flat out (non stacking) -1 to all rolls on the D, Stomp and Thunderblitz tables. No more auto removal of units or models, but still better than S10.<br /><br />You could also simplify it by just ignoring those results and treating them as the weaker results.Craig Valvanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03396759882574284834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-55920280297638221682015-04-21T02:21:02.441-07:002015-04-21T02:21:02.441-07:00I agree with Aaron whole heartily... I've bee...I agree with Aaron whole heartily... I've been playing since second editiong and there's always something (except for the recieving player base) to complain about when new codexes come out. Then people figure a way to deal with it and all's well with the world. But that doesn't change the fact we can't exclude some units just because people QQ too much in forums and complain about a game system that was built to be broken. If someone wants to build the list that's unbeatable, more power to them I say. For those who want to play to have fun, then do it, but to say to those who've spent their hard earned money and time into builing these awesome models and tell them they can't use them... it doesn't make sense to me.<br /><br />Another thing about banning certain units from codexes, it's one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of. Imagine using space marines and telling them they can't use a cen start anymore, or no thunderwolf calvary. You're taking away things that make a list viable under normal tournament rules. <br /><br />I say wait until the codex is actually released, give it a few months and see how the meta changes for eldar. On the other side every army has something to deal with these OP units that are being rewritten for the umpteenth time. Quit your bitching about something that's going to be obsolete in six months time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-10221194724111425382015-04-20T19:31:36.771-07:002015-04-20T19:31:36.771-07:00I agree with Aarons sentiments there are things th...I agree with Aarons sentiments there are things that are just not fun to play against. I spend 400-500 bucks to attend an event and then I just spend a game removing models based 100% on my opponents ability to roll 6's(stomp/D) or I get to sit and do absolutely nothing as my opponent makes me pick up models(2+ re-rolls). I have no problem losing, but when its known from the start that there is nothing I can do it is frustrating.<br /><br />It is just not fun to play everything right and then lose because they rolled one 6 and just pick up models regardless of value or how much I invested in it. <br /><br />We saw what happened in 5th and 6th when these extreme units arrived, it made it so only so many counters existed and killed a lot of the variety I have been seeing and enjoying since the start of 7th.Lethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09754497085092184799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-76329111781238291772015-04-20T19:00:20.992-07:002015-04-20T19:00:20.992-07:00Mike,
I completely disagree with changing a bass ...Mike,<br /><br />I completely disagree with changing a bass mechanic for a new codex coming out. Did you ban chaos daemon flamers when they came out and auto killed everything? If you are going to change weapon characteristics foe your event then you have no choice but to change the following four items as well:<br /><br />INVISIBILITY <br />GRIMOIRE<br />FORTUNE <br />KNIGHTS STOMPS OF A 6<br /><br />I get and understand the worry of players to "D". But dropping a daemon save to a 2++, re rolling 2+/2++/2+++ is worse. Along with being invisible. If this thought is for the "greater good", then more should be "changed".<br /><br />With respect ,<br /><br />Aaron Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06205922113166820633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-84698026110394980682015-04-20T18:41:23.558-07:002015-04-20T18:41:23.558-07:00Something you've probably already given though...Something you've probably already given thought to, but in relation to the Wraithknight: If you're banning it, what do people who want to bring the Wraith Host formation do? Are they forbidden from bringing it entirely because they cannot bring a WK, or will they be able to bring the formation sans WK?<br /><br />Many people are also concerned about the new Windrider Jetbikes -- at least their firepower if they are all allowed Scatter Lasers. Are there any plans regarding balancing for this unit, say restricting the ratio of heavy weapons?thariinyehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02836435820795906718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-51308189203426094072015-04-20T16:10:10.820-07:002015-04-20T16:10:10.820-07:00Hey mike, if you include MC's in that -1 to D ...Hey mike, if you include MC's in that -1 to D weapons then you also take out a very useful tool in the newest Khorne Demonkin book. It already has a nasty handicap of striking at I1, so if you hit it with the -1D penalty and still allow things like AdLance, then we go back to the earlier problem of Knights being very difficult to get off the table. What I propose, take it for what it's worth, is that we go with the rules as written for D and over the next couple months gather as much info about it, then re-visit the issue... If there even turns out to be an issue.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10426083963250382894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-48471282620388495012015-04-20T09:25:11.882-07:002015-04-20T09:25:11.882-07:00It's worth pointing out that D-scythes can'...It's worth pointing out that D-scythes can't benefit from Promethium Pipelines because they aren't flame-weapons as described in the rulebook.Nurglitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181931346965476499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-3327790321694364342015-04-20T08:47:45.919-07:002015-04-20T08:47:45.919-07:00Actually, the distinction is pretty good in the sc...Actually, the distinction is pretty good in the scope of limited detachments. Adding an IK to your army eats a detachment slot. Adding one to your Eldar army does not.<br /><br />Fun fact: A Castigator Imperial Knight used as a Lord of War slot is banned.Craig Valvanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03396759882574284834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-64309717236583090622015-04-20T08:38:04.001-07:002015-04-20T08:38:04.001-07:00The Imperial Knight distinction is bad and arbitra...The Imperial Knight distinction is bad and arbitrary. It is a superheavy that is randomly allowed simply because they have their own codex and a bunch of people own them. <br /><br />I get that you have to look out for attendance, but there is something fundamentally hypocritical about the decision to allow Knights (there always has been, and it isn't just NOVA either).<br /><br />I tend to think the game is a ton better and more diverse when we just decide to leave apochammer where it belongs or create another format for those who want to play that way. Again--I get the decision, but I doubt there is anyone emotionally invested in their Ad Crutch list. JGrandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16517521427158211447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-16004108462354619722015-04-20T08:29:21.711-07:002015-04-20T08:29:21.711-07:00Honestly, my point of contention is this: we treat...Honestly, my point of contention is this: we treat the models themselves as very important. It's why we give out scores for paint and loads of points for expertly crafted armies. So what we have now is a ban on models. Models whose rules are seen as a threat to the balance of the game that in this event is played competitively. What we're telling that player who lovingly and painstakingly made a masterpiece out of the Tesseract Vault (an amazing figure) that because GW cranked its power to 12, his figure is not allowed. I hate this. I hate it because in a year where the tournament is getting more accepting (Forge World rules), it is also restrictive.<br /><br />So what's the solution? Rewrite D, stomp and thunderblitz. You've already deviated from the rules. You've banned unbound and placed a limit on detachments. Think about this though. You scale back the actual things that people take exception to and you maximize the amount of happy people. Does it take more work? Sure, but in the end, it allows for more variety in armies and allows for the coolest looking models to be fielded.Craig Valvanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03396759882574284834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-69762422958849793502015-04-20T08:06:55.855-07:002015-04-20T08:06:55.855-07:00Only if they charged 15 points each ... that'd...Only if they charged 15 points each ... that'd be fair I think.Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-51787626596128608652015-04-20T07:59:31.965-07:002015-04-20T07:59:31.965-07:00Why not just modify Destroyer so that it inflicts ...Why not just modify Destroyer so that it inflicts D3 wounds, where a 2-3 inflicts a -1 save mod, a 4-5 inflicts a -2 save mod, and a 6 a -3 save mod? Make the D less "I autonuke", but make more consistently dangerous against Deathstars? Or some other tweak to make it less Russian Roulette? MagicJugglernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-67918761453887877812015-04-20T06:28:17.958-07:002015-04-20T06:28:17.958-07:00It's worth pointing out that D-scythes can'...It's worth pointing out that D-scythes can't benefit from Promethium Pipelines because they aren't flame-weapons as described in the rulebook.Nurglitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12181931346965476499noreply@blogger.com