tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post1015455823302015991..comments2024-03-17T01:39:05.808-07:00Comments on Whiskey & 40k: Grey Knights "Core" Shenanigans, How Far Can You Stretch It?Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-75532315196167471362011-06-17T13:42:53.113-07:002011-06-17T13:42:53.113-07:00Army Builder released 5E GK awhile back. Here'...Army Builder released 5E GK awhile back. Here's the web address to go grab it.. it's about 15 up from the bottom...<br /><br />http://www.wolflair.com/rightframe.php?context=army_builder&page=anticipated_release_datesSnake-Eyeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369886134172352364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-89084199301871858802011-06-15T06:25:14.156-07:002011-06-15T06:25:14.156-07:00What Rich said is highly accurate; that said, I...What Rich said is highly accurate; that said, I've continued to be successful against all GK build archetypes with the same Straken guard build I used at BFS (though bolt pistols x 2 and GK BC turned into lord com w/ cloak and extra kit).<br /><br />I also actually think that some nid builds do alright against them; not fantastically, but alright; they have to do it with dakka, 9 hive guard, and plenty of tervigons, but it's very doable. Catalyst natch also helps. Any nid build requiring combat gets owned horribly, or seems to, especially when purifiers are present in any kind of healthy quantity. Blah blah.<br /><br />Frankly, I could go through every dex, but I think any top notch build out of almost any dex is going to do fine against GK. Also, kinda ironically, many GK lists you see do very poorly against triple monolith, even this one if you don't addendum it properly. You'll notice a huge # of people who don't take many hammers or other sorts of things, and when they run up against liths they are kinda boned ... 3d6 s5 gauss can do a number on a parking lot and a bunch of dudes.<br /><br />GK are very strong, in that it's not hard to build a good list, and their basic dudes can often carry a very utility weapon in the Psycannon ... strong against all armor types w/ lots of bullets for all anti-infantry work.<br /><br />The GK do force you to up your list game even more, however, and their ability to torrent and crack open light armor makes things a little riskier for 5-man MSU marine type builds in transports. For my own part, Vets are still perfectly functional in their anti-armor and anti-marine roles as long as 4/10 are alive per squad ... and with the abundance of cover, orders, and going to ground, GK have a harder time dealing with 10-man vet squads hiding trips melta than they do dealing with 5 or 6 man marine squads as often as not ... their weapons don't struggle to put wounds down on things, after all, regardless of T in many cases.<br /><br />I could ramble on, but it's for another article, or someone that styles themselves more of an internet 'expert' (which I do not). Suffice to say I haven't seen GK change the balance of codices, so much as put a greater onus on all to up the level and caliber of their lists.<br /><br />Ironically, I think that may be as much of an issue as any - I did not feel any stress at ALL on anyone's already decent list in terms of dealing with Dark Eldar, Tyranids, or Blood Angels, though all 3 codices can be played in very nasty and terrifying fashion. With GK, though, the frank ease with which people can build strong lists, and the flexibility to be fluffy and still torrenty and competitive a la the above "core' ... all combine to create a much more 'real' pressure on the global player base to up their game than did codices before GK which I feel are just as competitively capable.<br /><br />I suppose, said in short, the GK dex makes bad players better more readily than most others, b/c putting down a list that can hurt people with some psyflemen dreads and a bunch of psycannons or psybacks is really not all that difficult to do.Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-59452575684471666672011-06-15T05:58:47.150-07:002011-06-15T05:58:47.150-07:00Lists don't beat lists....Lists don't beat lists....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-18211921365138571682011-06-15T00:34:26.352-07:002011-06-15T00:34:26.352-07:00I did use Excel before getting AB. You've got ...I did use Excel before getting AB. You've got to admit the former isn't a patch on the latter. I'm just spoiled I guess.<br /><br />So GK will be taking the tournament then? How can other lists match this?! Here is a challenge for you MVB: tell us what list will beat GK (without being tailored to only beat GK and crap against everything else.)vonklaudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-22792948836122553712011-06-14T15:51:27.190-07:002011-06-14T15:51:27.190-07:00Excel?Excel?Ironweevilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11391135624485083057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-42661980188287281662011-06-14T14:48:45.922-07:002011-06-14T14:48:45.922-07:00Of course sadly AB doesn't have GK scripted in...Of course sadly AB doesn't have GK scripted in yet. I was looking forward to taking MVB's core and seeing what could be fused to it. Paper is so much slower. Anyone know of any other good tools for making lists?vonklaudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-70778682217626354902011-06-14T13:34:31.553-07:002011-06-14T13:34:31.553-07:00I'm curious that you take the psyback route fo...I'm curious that you take the psyback route for henchmen rather than the Chimera that has five fire points.Ironweevilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11391135624485083057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-91077234227117117902011-06-14T05:27:34.672-07:002011-06-14T05:27:34.672-07:00I think thats the point. You can still fit in a be...I think thats the point. You can still fit in a beefy core by simply dropping acco squads. It's not like you have to keep all 6. Consider:<br /><br />Corteaz - 100<br />5xhenchmen /w 5xstormbolter, psyback - 85<br />5xhenchmen /w 5xstormbolter, psyback - 85<br />5xhenchmen /w 5xstormbolter, psyback - 85<br />5xhenchmen /w 5xstormbolter, psyback - 85<br />10xTerminators /w 2xpsycannon - 450 <br />10xTerminators /w 2xpsycannon - 450 <br />3xpsydreads<br />Total: 1745Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-59993935061887899712011-06-14T02:08:56.036-07:002011-06-14T02:08:56.036-07:00Absolutely incisive. Do you use Army Builder? I ke...Absolutely incisive. Do you use Army Builder? I keep cores like this saved as lists and then load and adapt them as wanted.<br /><br />FWIW I don't see how people can go past the sheer efficiency of 3-man aco squads.vonklaudenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-67988213714581070422011-06-13T22:06:28.965-07:002011-06-13T22:06:28.965-07:00I ran a list with pretty all razorback troops befo...I ran a list with pretty all razorback troops before and it died pretty quickly. Once those guys are out the transports they die to a stiff breeze.<br /><br />Atm, I'm running 2x 10man GKSS squads + Rhino and 2x Warband squads in razors + 2 5man purifier squads in razors, in my 1750 list which has been getting me results.<br /><br />I'll give this a try out when I actually have 6 razors, but I personally feel I need 2 "beefy" troop choicesGarthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11359414786294332550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-38615328910305219132011-06-13T17:38:49.533-07:002011-06-13T17:38:49.533-07:00I'm a fan of 2 wounds and a meltagunner for 22...I'm a fan of 2 wounds and a meltagunner for 22 points. Sometimes they get a bus, and sometimes they're just whining about walking. In any case, at least half of them are going to start in Reserve and walking for me anyway.<br /><br />I do have DCAs, though, because they are good clean fun (and I like the idea of s8 chicks in tee shirts = coteaz + librarian (hh+moh) + techmarine).Jwolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05300981728444363555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-40918922280695856082011-06-13T09:47:25.829-07:002011-06-13T09:47:25.829-07:00Bingo. If you're a fluff bunny, and don't...Bingo. If you're a fluff bunny, and don't want to run a Coteaz list, but want a shot at winning, model up 3 henchmen per razorback as "Crew," and have the razorbacks be the combat transport/logistics support elements of your force on the move. Whatever else you spend your points on will work better for their presence, and can be the true fluff and background of your force. Hooray!Mike Brandt; mvbrandt@gmailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818846784767602047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-83578340428667053272011-06-13T09:12:47.578-07:002011-06-13T09:12:47.578-07:00forgot the <3forgot the <3Behemothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08596940127886969091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-15971251986160070512011-06-13T09:12:21.439-07:002011-06-13T09:12:21.439-07:00I had this conversation just the other day. Cote...I had this conversation just the other day. Coteaz isnt the enemy of fluff... he lets the fluff nuggets run what they want and have a shot at winning.Behemothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08596940127886969091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-388453741033869908.post-34804372323288260662011-06-13T06:30:25.907-07:002011-06-13T06:30:25.907-07:00This is basically where I'm at in the build pr...This is basically where I'm at in the build process as well, however I run either 2 or 3 storm bolters on each 5 man squad.<br /><br />If the transport blows (which for me is the dominant reason boots touch ground), you're looking at losing 2-3 guys, who I'd prefer to be as cheap as possible.<br /><br />I clock in at 9 points cheaper per squad, meaning 54 points less total.<br /><br />Then, I build from there as you said.Andrew G (Target)noreply@blogger.com